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	<title>Comments on: Blog Against Theocracy: Pastafarian Suspended From School</title>
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	<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/</link>
	<description>Archaeology, anthropology, science, and skepticism</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 10:27:20 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: plumberbob</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-2063</link>
		<dc:creator>plumberbob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 05:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-2063</guid>
		<description>RAmen, Brother Josh,

Your explanation is superb.  I&#039;m afraid that we are up against a group of people who are so frightened by reality, that they quite literally put their fingers in their ears, and go,&quot;Na,na,na,na...&quot; while your note is being read to them.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them
-- Thomas Jefferson 

It says something about the idiocy of our age that one finds oneself having to come up with new arguments in favor of the thesis that anvils donâ€™t float.

RAmen,
plumberbob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAmen, Brother Josh,</p>
<p>Your explanation is superb.  I&#8217;m afraid that we are up against a group of people who are so frightened by reality, that they quite literally put their fingers in their ears, and go,&#8221;Na,na,na,na&#8230;&#8221; while your note is being read to them.</p>
<p>Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them<br />
&#8211; Thomas Jefferson </p>
<p>It says something about the idiocy of our age that one finds oneself having to come up with new arguments in favor of the thesis that anvils donâ€™t float.</p>
<p>RAmen,<br />
plumberbob</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-2061</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 03:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-2061</guid>
		<description>I say let the kid wear his holy pirate gear. A lot of kids dress like clowns these days, alongside which a pirate costume seems eminently sensible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I say let the kid wear his holy pirate gear. A lot of kids dress like clowns these days, alongside which a pirate costume seems eminently sensible.</p>
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		<title>By: ATSAP REVOL</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-2054</link>
		<dc:creator>ATSAP REVOL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:41:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-2054</guid>
		<description>RAmen, Brother Josh.  Your logic is sound.  The problem is that the ignorant/superstitious can&#039;t be swayed by logic. They have &quot;Faith,&quot; which is an impenetrable shield against any logic that contradicts their beliefs.  While mainstream Christians have no problem disbelieving Joseph Smith&#039;s &quot;golden plates,&quot; or Mohammed&#039;s dialog with Moses, their own beliefs are never subjected to the same judicial scrutiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RAmen, Brother Josh.  Your logic is sound.  The problem is that the ignorant/superstitious can&#8217;t be swayed by logic. They have &#8220;Faith,&#8221; which is an impenetrable shield against any logic that contradicts their beliefs.  While mainstream Christians have no problem disbelieving Joseph Smith&#8217;s &#8220;golden plates,&#8221; or Mohammed&#8217;s dialog with Moses, their own beliefs are never subjected to the same judicial scrutiny.</p>
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		<title>By: cfeagans</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-2045</link>
		<dc:creator>cfeagans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 04:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-2045</guid>
		<description>First, thank you for posting a comment. Even if this is a rather old post.

But I would say, as would many, that your claim that &quot;intelligent design theories do not necessarily include a GOD, or even, for that matter, EXCLUDE evolution&quot; is utterly wrong.

That &quot;intelligent&quot; design is a movement that is not only one that necessitates not just a god, but the Christian god, has been demonstrated without question in a court of law (google the Dover, PA case). ID proponents argue that evolution is false on the premise of &quot;irreducible complexity,&quot; the notion that some things, like the eye or the flagellum, are too complex to have evolved. They are of course wrong, and demonstrably so, but they are excluding evolution. You mention the possibility of life being the experiment of an alien race as being an example of how ID can occur without a god, but you fail to address the issue of the alien life: did it evolve via natural selection elsewhere in the universe or was it a special creation of a god. If the former, then why not use Occam&#039;s Razor until evidence of this &quot;experimentation&quot; is apparent, that is, evolution by natural is the more parsimonious explanation. If the latter, then what you&#039;re saying is that ID involves a god after all.

My premises are without fault. Yours, however, have more holes than the colander I strained spaghetti from just tonight (pbuhna).

Evolution is a fact, one supported by theories. Of these theories is the over-arching theory of evolution. What you&#039;re guilty of is equivocating the colloquial term &quot;theory&quot; with the scientific term. The colloquial term refers to guess or idle speculation. However, a theory in science is far more. Moreover, you seem to not understand the term &quot;law&quot; as it applies to science. The theory of evolution by natural selection is a fact that is supported by many laws of science as well as many, many tested hypotheses. Theories in science are well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented observations that give well-ordered explanations. The theory of gravity, atomic theory, and germ theory are but a few, indisputable theories that have a power of explanation that include many laws. And, in case you were under this ignorant assumption, theories do not aspire to graduate to laws. These are different animals altogether. 

And I should hope that you&#039;re wrong about not hearing other theories in other subjects in high school. Indeed, I should think an education in basic geometry and algebra would completely remiss without theories like the Pythagorean theorem. High school economics would likewise be expected to discuss supply and demand, which is, I&#039;m afraid, an economic theory. And a high school government class that is able to successfully avoid discussion of democracy is not one that I&#039;d recommend. Democracy is, after all, a political theory. 

Evolution is a fact. One born out by mountains of evidence that is continually refined and enlarged. Its a fact that is best understood by obtaining an education in the theory of evolution by natural selection -an education you clearly are deficit in. And it not only &lt;i&gt;should&lt;/i&gt; be taught in high school, it &lt;i&gt;must&lt;/i&gt; be if the United States has any desire to continue to be a major power in the world. Our poor education in the sciences is fast becoming our greatest weakness.

Any blame for unneeded controversy resides solely on the ignorant and the superstitious who refuse to obtain educations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, thank you for posting a comment. Even if this is a rather old post.</p>
<p>But I would say, as would many, that your claim that &#8220;intelligent design theories do not necessarily include a GOD, or even, for that matter, EXCLUDE evolution&#8221; is utterly wrong.</p>
<p>That &#8220;intelligent&#8221; design is a movement that is not only one that necessitates not just a god, but the Christian god, has been demonstrated without question in a court of law (google the Dover, PA case). ID proponents argue that evolution is false on the premise of &#8220;irreducible complexity,&#8221; the notion that some things, like the eye or the flagellum, are too complex to have evolved. They are of course wrong, and demonstrably so, but they are excluding evolution. You mention the possibility of life being the experiment of an alien race as being an example of how ID can occur without a god, but you fail to address the issue of the alien life: did it evolve via natural selection elsewhere in the universe or was it a special creation of a god. If the former, then why not use Occam&#8217;s Razor until evidence of this &#8220;experimentation&#8221; is apparent, that is, evolution by natural is the more parsimonious explanation. If the latter, then what you&#8217;re saying is that ID involves a god after all.</p>
<p>My premises are without fault. Yours, however, have more holes than the colander I strained spaghetti from just tonight (pbuhna).</p>
<p>Evolution is a fact, one supported by theories. Of these theories is the over-arching theory of evolution. What you&#8217;re guilty of is equivocating the colloquial term &#8220;theory&#8221; with the scientific term. The colloquial term refers to guess or idle speculation. However, a theory in science is far more. Moreover, you seem to not understand the term &#8220;law&#8221; as it applies to science. The theory of evolution by natural selection is a fact that is supported by many laws of science as well as many, many tested hypotheses. Theories in science are well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented observations that give well-ordered explanations. The theory of gravity, atomic theory, and germ theory are but a few, indisputable theories that have a power of explanation that include many laws. And, in case you were under this ignorant assumption, theories do not aspire to graduate to laws. These are different animals altogether. </p>
<p>And I should hope that you&#8217;re wrong about not hearing other theories in other subjects in high school. Indeed, I should think an education in basic geometry and algebra would completely remiss without theories like the Pythagorean theorem. High school economics would likewise be expected to discuss supply and demand, which is, I&#8217;m afraid, an economic theory. And a high school government class that is able to successfully avoid discussion of democracy is not one that I&#8217;d recommend. Democracy is, after all, a political theory. </p>
<p>Evolution is a fact. One born out by mountains of evidence that is continually refined and enlarged. Its a fact that is best understood by obtaining an education in the theory of evolution by natural selection -an education you clearly are deficit in. And it not only <i>should</i> be taught in high school, it <i>must</i> be if the United States has any desire to continue to be a major power in the world. Our poor education in the sciences is fast becoming our greatest weakness.</p>
<p>Any blame for unneeded controversy resides solely on the ignorant and the superstitious who refuse to obtain educations.</p>
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		<title>By: Josh</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-2042</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 03:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-2042</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re basic premise is false.  In seeking to teach intelligent design, they aren&#039;t seeking to push a specific religion,  Intelligent design theories do not necessarily include a GOD, or even, for that matter, EXCLUDE evolution.   Intelligent design can include the creation by an alien race doing experiments or a test, a benevolent diety, a spaghetti monster, or even some existentialist theories that we DON&#039;T exist but are in fact figments of someone/things imagination.

Thusly, your entire premise is faulty.  You original letter was asking for something more than what intelligent design is.

Now as far as theories for high school, frankly, NEITHER evolution or intelligent design belong there.  As soon as you step out of law and into theory, whatever it is, it is not high school curriculum.  You don&#039;t hear political theory in your high school government class, you don&#039;t hear theoretical math.  High school is a place of facts, theory belongs in college, where more mature minds can process the difference.

The fact is biology is not &quot;enhanced&quot; by knowing the theory of evolution on a high school level.  All that it has done for years and years is create unneeded controversy.   Why bring controversy to our schools which should be worrying about far more important things?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re basic premise is false.  In seeking to teach intelligent design, they aren&#8217;t seeking to push a specific religion,  Intelligent design theories do not necessarily include a GOD, or even, for that matter, EXCLUDE evolution.   Intelligent design can include the creation by an alien race doing experiments or a test, a benevolent diety, a spaghetti monster, or even some existentialist theories that we DON&#8217;T exist but are in fact figments of someone/things imagination.</p>
<p>Thusly, your entire premise is faulty.  You original letter was asking for something more than what intelligent design is.</p>
<p>Now as far as theories for high school, frankly, NEITHER evolution or intelligent design belong there.  As soon as you step out of law and into theory, whatever it is, it is not high school curriculum.  You don&#8217;t hear political theory in your high school government class, you don&#8217;t hear theoretical math.  High school is a place of facts, theory belongs in college, where more mature minds can process the difference.</p>
<p>The fact is biology is not &#8220;enhanced&#8221; by knowing the theory of evolution on a high school level.  All that it has done for years and years is create unneeded controversy.   Why bring controversy to our schools which should be worrying about far more important things?</p>
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		<title>By: chiron613</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator>chiron613</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 16:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-176</guid>
		<description>Most people don&#039;t even know what the Bible (or any other book) actually says.  That&#039;s just for starters.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Beyond that, no one has ever shown that the Bible (or any other book) contains a true account of creation, or much of anything.  It makes as much sense to base beliefs on the Bible, as it does on Rig Veda, Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, or the FSM scripture, such as it is... they are all equally valid... or invalid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people don&#8217;t even know what the Bible (or any other book) actually says.  That&#8217;s just for starters.</p>
<p>Beyond that, no one has ever shown that the Bible (or any other book) contains a true account of creation, or much of anything.  It makes as much sense to base beliefs on the Bible, as it does on Rig Veda, Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, or the FSM scripture, such as it is&#8230; they are all equally valid&#8230; or invalid.</p>
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		<title>By: Fun-da-mental</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>Fun-da-mental</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-175</guid>
		<description>I bet if you look at any holy book with an open mind, you will see LOTS of squiggles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bet if you look at any holy book with an open mind, you will see LOTS of squiggles.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 09:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I would just like to say that the logic in the post above me is flawless.  There ARE more squiggles.  I&#039;m converted.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;What&#039;s sad is that this kind of reasoning is more logical than that of &#039;fundamental,&#039; and that people believe a flawed, contradictory book like the Bible is perfect, and contains the will of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just like to say that the logic in the post above me is flawless.  There ARE more squiggles.  I&#8217;m converted.  </p>
<p>What&#8217;s sad is that this kind of reasoning is more logical than that of &#8216;fundamental,&#8217; and that people believe a flawed, contradictory book like the Bible is perfect, and contains the will of God.</p>
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		<title>By: Devotee of reason and seals</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-173</link>
		<dc:creator>Devotee of reason and seals</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 20:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-173</guid>
		<description>Objectively, there is more evidence of the FSM than of the Christian God.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Consider: If the world was made, a good creator would have made it as close to creation as possible. If the creator was perfect, this would involve lots of things that look like him. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The image of God is Man. The image of the FSM is squiggles. I put it to you that there are more squiggles on earth than men. QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Objectively, there is more evidence of the FSM than of the Christian God.</p>
<p>Consider: If the world was made, a good creator would have made it as close to creation as possible. If the creator was perfect, this would involve lots of things that look like him. </p>
<p>The image of God is Man. The image of the FSM is squiggles. I put it to you that there are more squiggles on earth than men. QED.</p>
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		<title>By: robert</title>
		<link>http://ahotcupofjoe.net/2007/04/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/comment-page-1/#comment-172</link>
		<dc:creator>robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 23:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahotcupofjoe.wordpress.com/2007/04/06/blog-against-theocracy-pastafarian-suspended-from-school/#comment-172</guid>
		<description>HOw Dare you deny the sacred trueness of His Noodly Appendage. I damn you to the tapioca of everlastinness</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HOw Dare you deny the sacred trueness of His Noodly Appendage. I damn you to the tapioca of everlastinness</p>
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